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Steam Chat – Gaming is DoOOmmed

11:18 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: What’s up?
11:18 PM – DominusBelli: Hmm gotcha
11:19 PM – DominusBelli: I dunno I’m still in school
11:19 PM – DominusBelli: still working at TPG
11:19 PM – DominusBelli: what about you
11:19 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Still running a hosting company, which has someone managed to gain a reputation of liking doughnuts on Twitter…
11:19 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Long story
11:20 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I’ve also been posting to my horribly unoriginal blog
11:20 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: A blog which no one reads or cares about
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!:
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Retweeted 9 times
11:21 PM – DominusBelli: The one with the scary story series?
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Yeah
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: That one
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Wrote a mini editorial / rant on there
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Longest post I’ve done for a while
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: And it was about the game industry, and why I hate it
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Ironic, no?
11:21 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Heh
11:22 PM – DominusBelli: Haha yeah
11:22 PM – DominusBelli: I’m not too fond of it either
11:22 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Want to read the article? Just to see if you agree with my general view?
11:22 PM – DominusBelli: After critics trashed MoHWF
11:22 PM – DominusBelli: Sure
11:22 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!:
11:22 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Beware: writing is horrible
11:23 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: DIdn’t bother with grammar and seplling, just like I didn’t bother cheking this very reply
11:25 PM – DominusBelli: No worries
11:26 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: That’s the magic of a blog
11:26 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: No one cares what you write
11:26 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I.. even wrote an article about that
11:26 PM – DominusBelli: 1. Borderlands 2
11:26 PM – DominusBelli: 2. Bioshock Infinite
11:27 PM – DominusBelli: 3. Deus Ex Human Revolution
11:27 PM – DominusBelli: I mean
11:27 PM – DominusBelli: I get what you’re saying
11:28 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Borderlands? I guess that counts, but it’s cutting it close on that 5 year thing. (released 4 years ago)

Also, Bioshock Infinite doesn’t really count. Story? Fine, but that’s not what gaming is truly about. Bioshock plays like any other Bioshock.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a good game. Didn’t think of that.

However, that’s a very select group of games. YOu can count it on a single hand.
11:29 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Basically, when there’s less than five games.. you’ve got a problem
11:29 PM – DominusBelli: Well sure
11:30 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Even if we use the example I gave, LBP. That’s still 4. (even with Infinite, it’s still under five, and Infinite is just Bioshock 1 or 2, except, with a new setting.
11:30 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: It’s just, what happened to this industry? Like, this industry doesn’t even exist anymore. It’s not about the games anymore.
11:31 PM – DominusBelli: To some it is
11:31 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Not to the developers.
11:31 PM – DominusBelli: We still have devs rising up
11:31 PM – DominusBelli: devs who care
11:31 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Indies don’t count
11:31 PM – DominusBelli: they aren’t indie anymore
11:31 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I believe indies are an entirely new race of developers
11:31 PM – DominusBelli: Like the people who made Dishonored
11:32 PM – DominusBelli: Or the people behind Starbreeze
11:32 PM – DominusBelli: I mean
11:32 PM – DominusBelli: Payday 2
11:33 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Dishonored wasn’t exactly an innovative game. It had a great concept, but it was in no way innovative.
I’d consider Payday to be an indie studio as well, but one that has been taken in by the ‘tinted light’.
11:33 PM – DominusBelli: They were published by SOE though, I don’t consider them indie when a publisher takes them in
11:34 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I also refer to ‘true’ indies as having the ‘indie spirit’. That is, developers that want to create fun and unique experiences, rather than a game that’ll just make them money.

Developers that see their work as an art form, rather than as a product.
11:35 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Most of the large studios do not have this indue spirit.
11:35 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Some do, yes. However, they tend to lose that spirit the instant their game becomes a success… and if it fails, they tend to go down with it
11:36 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I consider Valve to have the indie spirit, even though they are the size of a AAA studio.
11:36 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Same with Nintendo
11:38 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: But, the fact that the people who view games as being nothing more than a product… Well, the fact that they out number those that see gaming as a creative art saddens me. I honestly believe that the current game industry is set to crash. Indies will likely take over as the dominant studios. If anything, I’d expect indies to become dominant within the next five years, even if the current technology limits their creative freedom.
11:38 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Anyways, I’m too tired to formulate proper sentences
11:38 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: So, I’m heading off
11:38 PM – DominusBelli: :/
11:39 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: In case you couldn’t tell. Heh
11:39 PM – DominusBelli: Haha alright
11:39 PM – DominusBelli: but
11:39 PM – DominusBelli: Here’s some words to end on
11:40 PM – DominusBelli: I think that yes most studios view their games as products rather than art, but why not? Even Team Meat and Polytron view their games as money makers.
11:40 PM – DominusBelli: Its a mix of both really
11:40 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I just believe that’s a bad thing.
11:41 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: When money becomes the key motivator, how can we expect to properly evolve beyond our current industry trends?
Things will just keep getting worse. We already have ‘free’ to play games with microtransactions.
11:43 PM – DominusBelli: and studios that have the indie spirit but are the size of a AAA studio…. I feel like they still count towards the AAA status because they make games that are on par with other big names
11:43 PM – DominusBelli: On free-to-play games, they’re interesting. I do believe that they are there to make money and all, but I do feel that they fit a specific need
11:46 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I just feel like there’s too many broken concepts, and that the industry is promoting all the wrong things to all the wrong people, and that we, as consumers, are doing little to nothing to help change what is heading towards a purely money-focused game industry. Imagine, a game industry that crosses moral lines, and forces you to pay extra money to unlock a certain set of features, all while preventing you from playing video games when and where you want due to some horrible DRM policy.
That’s where I see this industry heading. If not for gamers speaking up when they did, the PS4 and Xbox One would be vastly different machines, with DRM and microtransactions on every ‘corner’ of the virtual dashboard.
11:49 PM – DominusBelli: Yeah I agree, but gamers will always keep the industry in check. Its just a matter of tim until we start accepting things they impose on us
11:51 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Also, by moral, I’m referring to our constant focus on graphical realism, combined with shooting games and simulations.
THere will come a time when the games are made graphically identical to real life, and the AI systems are so advanced, they simulate real human actions.
When this happens, and trust me, it will happen, a certain line will be crossed. We are no longer killing virtual people, but instead people that look and behave as if they were real. Gamers are already being desentualized to violent acts, but when they become violent and have nearly perfect graphics… What’s the difference between killing a virtual character, and killing a real person?

We will be so desentualized to the matter, killing would become second nature. Adults may be able to differentiate between real and virtual, but when you are a kid, and you grow up with this type of social entertainment… Well, I think you see where I’m going with this.
11:53 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: The current industry is heading down the wrong path, and us gamers are all accepting every single step.
11:53 PM – DominusBelli: Hmm
11:53 PM – DominusBelli: have you ever heard of uncanny valley?
11:53 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: No?
11:53 PM – DominusBelli:
11:53 PM – DominusBelli: its interesting
11:54 PM – DominusBelli: basically you can make something look really realistic, but there comes a point where its so realistic, that there is a instinct that tells you its definitely not real
11:58 PM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Sure, but what if you saw that human looking robot being brutally murdered before your eyes?
And, what if you, as a child, not only got to see this happen, but you directly influenced it. After a while, you’ll become so used to the act, you’ll be able to do it without much remorse.

That article doesn’t mention how repetitive or recurring violent behavior could have an effect on our own mental consciousness. The uncanny valley concept is applied mostly towards robotics, which is currently quite rare in the real world. When it’s instead applied towards virtual characters on your television screen… Well, the concept breaks apart.
Tuesday, November 05, 2013
12:00 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: We’re also talking about children, not grown adults that can differentiate between real and simulated.
Children are influenced by the world around them, and if that world is telling them that killing is okay… What’s to say that they won’t eventually believe it?
12:03 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Also, with video games especially, that uncanniness does not apply. You’re not actually interacting with the virtual characters directly, nor do you feel any emotions towards them or their death. You just see them as objects to see, or as a part of an ongoing objective.

The uncanny valley would only apply towards physical objects, such as advanced robotics. Simulated ones seem to fall outside of its theory
12:03 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: *as objects to kill
12:03 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: I do agree with it, though
12:04 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: For robotics
12:04 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: It’s a logical concept
12:05 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Also, the only mention of robotics involves CGI, or nondirect interaction with the generated characters.
12:05 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Er, of computers
12:05 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Heh
12:05 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Not of robotics
12:05 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Tired
12:05 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: “In computer animation”
12:06 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Direct interaction with the animated characters completely changes the entire concept.
12:06 AM – DominusBelli: I honestly don’t believe that children will be okay with killing. There’s something in our instincts that tells us that its not okay. We are born with that.
12:11 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Except, our instincts only involve our will to live. Survival, health. Stuff like that.
Everything else about ones own personality can and will be changed or altered based on his or her environment. For example, if a kid grows up in the middle east, and is taught that guns are good, and to shoot people.. Chances are, that kid will be perfectly fine with the action of taking anothers life.
Same goes for our western civilization. If children are taught to believe that death, murder and violence is a normal part of our everyday life, they will not be phased by it. They will have no moral grounds to prevent them from killing, as to their own visual knowledge, killing is common. They see it in movies, they do it in games, they read it in books, they see it on websites. Killing is a part of their life, and when they are given the power to kill a 100% perfect visual representation of human life, whether simulated or robotic, their psych will be permanently altered to allow and accept this act.
12:12 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Repetition can be a dangerous thing.
12:13 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: One virtual murder may not be a problem, but when kids are murdering virtual characters every day. Well, by this time their mind would have accepted it as common fact.
12:13 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: And they would fail to differentiate virtual life from real life, as to them, both virtual and real look and feel the same.
12:13 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Also, you’re the one that kept this conversation going.
12:14 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: You can only blame yourself
12:14 AM – DominusBelli: Well if I may interject
12:14 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: -for my banter
12:14 AM – DominusBelli: I’m not going to change my opinion on this
12:14 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: Neither am I. My opinion is based on science.
12:14 AM – [DRS] Sidular Spy!: That’s just how we all work